Thursday, November 22, 2007

Zwarte Piet is a racist caracature part II -- Thanksgiving edition

(photo: emmaline)

(This essay is a work in progress)

To the good people of the Netherlands, who believe that they are not racist, wrongly, and believe that Zwarte Piet is a harmless, innocent tradition, wrongly, I want to say:

Thank you! I'm American, and I recognize that we owe Santa Claus, the main figure in our primary children's fantasy holiday, directly to the Dutch Sinterklaas. Santa turned Nordic in America, he got fat in America (like so many Americans), and we gave him elves as "helpers" ourselves. But credit for the basic idea goes to the Dutch settlers of New Amsterdam.

In return, we have given you one of our smash-hit cultural exports to use during Sinterklaas: "blackface" and "darky iconography," a racist genre of theater and art that portrays black people as idiots, with exaggerated big lips, woolly hair, and of course, pitch black faces.

You use it on Sint's friend, "Black Pete."



Happy Thanksgiving!

No, Zwarte Piet wasn't always part of your Dec. 5 Sinterklaas tradition, which itself has changed dramatically over the years. Store that fact for later reference.

Zwarte Piet is a mishmash of ideas, but the red lips, woolly hair and blackface part of his "look" was copied directly and indirectly from artistic traditions from the U.S. in the century before World War II.

It was a time when few white people anywhere took black people's feelings very seriously, when colonialism and racial superiority were still credible ideas, and most Dutch people had never even seen a black person.

In the past 50 years, however, thanks to the civil rights movement in the United States and anti-colonial movements everywhere, blackface and darky iconography have become taboo, the visual equivalent of screaming the word "nigger." That's known from San Francisco to Tokyo. But not in poor Holland.




I say poor Holland, because in some ways, it really is too bad for you. You didn't create the problem of racism against black people (though you played your role), and now you've been left holding the bag: black racist iconography caught up right at the heart of one of your most beloved holiday traditions.

But racist it is, racist on its face and racist in its derivation.

On its face: a white man serves as overlord to a group of stupid servants with big lips, woolly hair, and black skin.
The derivation question is more complicated, and I'll return to it.



Simply put, because millions of black people were killed or enslaved by white people in the past four centuries, and millions more continue to suffer discrimination (in the United States AND the Netherlands), putting on blackface, wearing woolly wigs and red lipstick is about as funny as wearing a swastika.



Maybe you wouldn't blame a remote tribe somewhere in the Amazon forest for using the swastika unwittingly.

But the Netherlands is an industrialized, trading nation, not so isolated as to be able to plead mere ignorance.

(kyle horner)

Don't believe it that the rest of the world feels this way? Ask anybody not Dutch. Read up a bit.



It's the same as portraying Asian people as giggling with slanty eyes, or Native Americans as having buck teeth and wearing feathers.

(popular when I was young, no longer in U.S. stores)
(The Cleveland Indians baseball team is still fighting lawsuits about their racist caricature mascot "Chief Wahoo")

Actually, the reality is that you do know Zwarte Piet is a racist caricature, but you're experiencing a psychological phenomenon known as "cognitive dissonance" : the brain filters out new information (Zwarte Piet is a racist caricature) that conflicts with what one already believes (I love Zwarte Piet and I am not a racist).

In other words, even though you accept intellectually that racism is wrong, when you are confronted with evidence that Zwarte Piet is a racist tradition, your brain automatically starts looking for ways to reconcile the conflict.

Because it's socially impossible to let go of the belief that racism is wrong, the brain instead attempts to undermine or avoid the idea that Zwarte Piet is a racist tradition.

Here's some examples of how this kind of rationalizing works:

1) Zwarte Piet may be a little bit racist, but it doesn't matter much. After all, comedians make racist jokes sometimes, and that's okay.
2) I'm not racist, and I prove it in cases where it really matters. But Zwarte Piet is harmless fun.
3) Just because Zwarte Piet happens to be black, that doesn't make him a racist caricature.

That last one is correct. If Zwarte Piet were just black, he wouldn't be a racist caricature. It's that he's black, stupid, with woolly hair and big red lips _ that makes him a caricature.

The hardest rationalizations for me to answer are the first two, of the "So What?" variety, which assume that Zwarte Piet is mostly harmless. These often include a counterattack, saying "lighten up" and "stop being so politically correct."

I admit it's impossible to measure how much exposure to a negative stereotype will influence kids. Some exposure is inevitable and probably acceptable, like background radiation, I suppose. Zwarte Piet seems pretty bad, since it comes back every year and you can't avoid it. But maybe racist caricatures like Zwarte Piet are like video game violence _ kids look at them, but they're immune to the message.

(celesteh)
(celesteh)

Maybe. I say, why take the chance? Are we really so lazy when it comes to an ethical question like this? Are the Dutch tolerant, or just indifferent?

When in defensive mode, Dutch people often say, it's only adults who have a problem with Zwarte Piet. That always makes me laugh. That's right, it's the adults who don't want to change. The kids don't care, and would never notice the difference.

To me, the "So What?" argument is a lot weaker in the face of people who say they feel real emotional pain due to the lingering aftereffects of the slave trade. I'm not one of them, but I believe them, and it seems needlessly mean, in my opinion, to throw "So What?" in their faces, in the name of a tradition that's not so old or so strong as some people seem to believe (below). But again, I suppose that's a matter of taste.

You often hear Dutch people argue that foreigners just don't 'get' Zwarte Piet, as if there were mysterious depths to the tradition that we're missing. After nine years here, I think it's the Dutch who don't get it.

Typical foreigner question: Why would an enlightened, tolerant country like the Netherlands indulge in a ceremony that's so insulting to black people?

Typical Dutch Answer: Zwarte Piet isn't even from "black" (sub-Saharan) Africa, he's from Morocco. Or Spain.

Q: Then why is his skin so black, just like in all the "darky" figurines, rather than olive-colored?

A: Because he went down a chimney.

Q: Then why aren't there just smudges on his cheeks to show that he's been down a chimney?

(no answer)

Q: Why are his lips so big and red?

(no answer).

Q: Why is his hair so nappy?

A: Because he's black (after all) and that's how black people really look! (!!) or, Because he's a clown!

(Britain 1895)

Then the Dutch get defensive, attack the foreign questioner on his own national disgraces (Americans are an easy target) and will point out some other irrelevant detail, such as that Piet is actually rich, as evidenced by his clothes, so he can't be a slave or a servant.

What a lot of excuses there are for Zwarte Piet's racist appearance!

It's true there are a lot of traditions mixed together in Zwarte Piet _ just as there are a lot of traditions mixed together in Sinterklaas. The fact that they have changed so much over time should give us hope that Zwarte Piet will gradually be given the makeover he needs.

Sinterklaas wasn't always on Dec. 5 (see: The Reformation) nor is it wholly based on the the Greek Orthodox Άγιος Νικόλαος, but also other, less Christian tales, in which the white horse the Saint rides wasn't called "Amerigo"...

The legend of St. Nicholas (from Lycia, then-Greek, now Turkey) has merged with heathen ceremonies around Europe in countless variations.

But the general picture is: nice rich guy gives presents to kids, accompanied by one of two types of sidekicks: a poor servant (the clown), or a sinister figure (the devil).

The Dutch tradition happens to mix the good cop/bad cop elements, but the Sint either had no servant or a white servant until Jan Schenkman published a book called "Saint Nicholas and his Servant" in 1850. Schenkman dreamed up the idea that Sinterklaas arrives by steamboat (invented 1801) from Spain with a black servant (who isn't even called 'Piet' yet, the name first appears in a book in 1891).

Here are some Dutch images before and after Schenkman.

1852

1854


(Schenkman book illustrations circa 1885 _ see the servant walking behind him?)
(Schenkman)

(1928 _ a full fledged 'darky' Piet)


As the end of World War II, the one Zwarte Piet was multiplied to become many Piets _ I've heard varying explanations, but the basic idea appears to be that the Canadian soldiers who liberated the Netherlands wanted more manpower to give out all the gifts, and you could hardly multiply a saint.

So much for the ancient, immutable tradition of Zwarte Piet.

Now, thinking toward a resolution:

What should the Dutch do about Zwarte Piet? After all, the apologists argue, it's part of our history now. We can't whitewash "Black Pete."

I think the answer should be obvious from all that I've written above. You don't need to purge all mention of Zwarte Piet. What you need to do is, unwind the things about him that are most objectionable, the same way that Sinterklaas dropped his stick over the years as beating children became unacceptable.

Focus on his "Piet-ness" rather than his "Zwart-ness," as the NOS once put it.

So:
No red lipstick. What does it add?
Use black smudges on the face (for the 'chimney ashes') instead of blackface "schmink."
Replace nappy black wigs with any other kind of hair you like. Dare I ask why does he even need the hair when he's got a feathered cap?

The multiplicity of Piets makes your job that much easier. Rainbow Piets? Why not. Throw in crafty Piets instead of dumb Piets. The cunning servant and jester characters have as long if not longer a tradition in Sinterklaas than that of the dumb slave.

Sterkte!

(fabiola74)
(bart)

"Teach your children well."

24 reacties:

esther said...

I am sorry but I really love zwarte Piet and Sinterklaas. I understand the arguments against zwarte Piet, but what about 'jeugdsentiment'?

Toby Sterling said...

Hi Esther. You don't have to be sorry for loving Zwarte Piet. You just have to ask that he take off the blackface, red lipstick and woolly hair. For the rest, no problem.
"Jeugdsentiment" _ yes, I'm sure many an aging southern belle in the United States remembers fondly the days when black people said "yes ma'am" whenever they called for a mint julep.
Things were so civilized then!

In seriousness, I think you can go home again. Just not all the way. The tradition should change, not die.

norma said...

You're right of course but unfortunately I, and I think 90% of the native Dutch population have been brainwashed since birth and a zwarte Piet without a curly whig and a few black smudges on his face, no matter how politically correct, is just not the real thing. Poor you by the way, 5/12 must be sheer torture with your child being exposed constantly to this awful stereotype.....

Toby Sterling said...

Hi Norma.

Well, we're going to have to have a debate in my household about what to do with our kid(s) and Zwarte Piet!

My wife hasn't really made it clear to me where she stands on this, but I think she's in the "slightly racist but harmless" camp.

And she's a formidable debater. We'll see what happens. For now the kid(s) are too young anyhow.

Another American Expat said...

well, I was looking forward to this post and think you did a great job of laying it out simply - this is racist and must change. That's it, end of story. And as it DOES change I hope that people can start to explain to their kids why it had to change.

Perhaps DW Griffith's Birth of a Nation should be mandatory viewing in Dutch schools. But would the Dutch look at it and say "yeah, but that's the US, so it doesn't count here?" Wrong. That film is taught in history classes, it's touted as a classic piece of cinema - but it's racist, plain and simple. In fact, that's all the more reason to watch it - so we don't forget how serious of a problem racism was and still is.

Keep Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet, but like you said - do away with the blackface, lipstick, and wooly hair - and just be honest about it. just because something is tradition doesn't make it right.

A.Deb said...

racism in the u.s. was institutionalized by slavery, and the legacy of that still plagues black americans today, but it's bad and embarrassing and doesn't justify racism anywhere else.
plus, in the states, it's seriously frowned upon to be in the same room as a painting of someone in black-face , much less dress up in it oneself.
it'd be like the germans dressing up like little "funny" skull-capped, big-nosed Jewish kids. not ok.

dutch may be liberal and adventurous and have really good licorice (and cheese and pancakes), but they are every bit as capable of racism as anyone else, and not just with zwarte piet.

not trying to be anti-dutch. i love holland - so much better than the u.s. in so many ways beyond pancakes - and i understand it must be scary to have change to that great little country. but having heard the educated dutch casually say things like they want to yell at a (turkish) mother who talks to her child in her mother-tongue instead of dutch in the park? wow. not so open-armed, i think.

oh yeah, happy thanksgiving though there's a whole racist bag of wasps that could be opened with that

Black Women in Europe said...

Excellent post Toby. Thanks for the thorough examination. I touched on this subject today http://blackwomenineurope.blogspot.com/2007/11/yearly-blackface-being-in-amsterdam-two.html

I don't know if you caught wind of the UNICEF Germany's blackface campaign during the G8 meeting: http://blackwomenineurope.blogspot.com/search?q=UNICEF

I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving.

Toby Sterling said...

"Another Americn Expat", "A. Deb", and "Black Women in Europe":

Thanks muchly for your comments. Another Expat: Yes, the Dutch are very good at saying this is a problem that exists only in the minds of Americans, though I don't think I would sentence them to DW Griffiths. BTW if I had to summarize my whole article in one sentence, it would be what you wrote: "just because something is tradition doesn't make it right."

A. Deb (hmm, I suspect I know who you are _ someone in a somewhat unique situation to judge!) _ the Dutch self-image is based on being tolerant and non-racist, so they can delude themselves that because they love Zwarte Piet, therefore it can't be racist. But you are right there are many other examples of Dutch intolerance, and the arrogant dismissal of people speaking Turkish or Arabic (Berber) in the park is a good one. It's really a blind spot for people who otherwise *mean* well.

Black Women in Europe: Thanks for the link! I think I'm going to continue this discussion by interviewing some Dutch people on what they think of Zwarte Piet. Maybe I'll even interview some Zwarte Piets.

It's such a serious topic, but maybe if I can get some people to laugh about it, and not feel threatened that I'm labeling them irretrievably "racist," then I can actually change some minds about Zwarte Piet.

I didn't say this in the post, but I believe: everybody makes mistakes and says or thinks racist things sometimes, just like saying or doing anything stupid.

I put my foot in my mouth all the time, and in the right context, I think that even terrible things can be funny. So maybe if I can make people laugh about Zwarte Piet, and don't come in with a "holier than thou" attitude, I can actually change some minds...

If you don't try, you never know, right?

Black Women in Europe said...

Toby, I know that it is not Americans who find the Black Peter character strange. When I was in Amsterdam on the 16th of this mo nth I met with 5 ladies from my Black Women in Europe social network who are black Dutch women. I got to talk to one about it and she finds it strange. I asked her why, at the very least, don't black people play the role. She did tell me that she's seen a (one)black person in a Black Peter costume.
I'd appreciate it if you could post a short comment at my blog that sums up your feelings because sometimes I just don't think that people get it.

Laura K. said...

I'm so happy I found your blog! I'm also an American living in NL! I'm in Heerlen, Limburg... I found your blog looking for a way to explain what is WRONG with this holiday to people and you did an incredible job. My son is 4 and in basisschool now and they are doing everything with this holiday and I don't know how to get him away from it... any tips? I explained it's not real and that some people are just stupid to believe it. Can't wait to be called in to explain why my son calls his friends stupid hehe!

Toby Sterling said...

Hi Laura. You're asking the really difficult question _ and maybe you should be the one giving me tips! I don't know myself what to tell my son (he's not two yet, so it hasn't really been an issue).
It's certainly impossible for them to avoid seeing Piet...
You've made what I would consider a big (admirable) decision by denying Piet's existence, which is really the first step in explaining what racism is all about.

I think most Dutch parents will want to (have to, really) maintain the illusion that Sint and Piet both exist, in which case they face the equally daunting proposition of claiming that Piet is real but doesn't look like *that* (!).

I guess then you point out that Piet is wearing shoe polish on his face to make himself black as tar, ridiculously black, and *that's* stupid of Piet.

Anyhow. I need to think about this some more.

In the meanwhile I've been meaning to remark, and you reminded me (indirectly): racism is due to ignorance, not stupidity. Always.

I heard those words a few times before I appreciated their significance, but it was a big revelation when it finally came home to me.

Norma said...

A clip of a very politically incorrect nature. Erg fout!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f7e5q5mSXo

Have a nice sinterklaasavond anyway ;-).

Laura K. said...

Thought I'd pop in and leave an update. I was just at Bart Smit and picked up a sinterklaas present for our son. As much as the whole thing bothers me, he is TRULY excited about the holiday which is hard not to notice. I thought that since he's too young to really understand the explaination, I would just plop the present wrapped up on his bed before he wakes up and if he asks who gave it I'll just say I have no idea. I'd feel bad sending him to school with the other kids talking about what they got that morning.

We had a conference with the juffvrouw yesterday and I mentioned my issues. She doesn't agree but sympathizes. She said she knew from the other day (when the kids came in to unwrapped candy in their GYM SHOES) that I was upset (umm because.. EW?). I said I want my son to know what Christmas is about and she assured me that the next topic will be Jesus, etc and that makes me feel better about it.

So I suppose my only tip is to not introduce it but if your kids hear about it and believe it on their own, you should take their lead.

I'm not encouraging it, but I'm not 100% squashing it either. Maybe if I don't give much attention to it, he will come to our side easier. You know how kids are.. if you tell them not to do something, they do it!!!

Derek said...

Suffice it to say that I fully agree with Toby's feelings about the Zwarte Piet tradition, although I doubt if it will mean anything to the Dutch since I'm not only an American but one who still lives in America.

Toby, Laura, et al: assuming you haven't read or heard this piece before I think you'll be interested by David Sedaris's disturbingly hilarious essay "Six to Eight Black Men," which contrasts the American Santa Claus story with the Dutch Sinterklaas. He doesn't mention Zwarte Piet or the blackface iconography, but he certainly doesn't ignore the racial and misanthropic elements.

In my opinion, Sedaris's work is best appreciated in audio format - his high, curious voice and subtle timing match the skewed humor of his writing perfectly. The audio of Sedaris reading the piece can be heard here. The file is in three pieces, so at when one ends, just click by the pink box on the right where it says "next." Oh, and in case you start wondering when he's going to get to the part about Sinterklaas, it's at about the last quarter of the first file. The whole essay is probably about 15 minutes long.

Enjoy, and I'd be curious to hear any reactions.

Anonymous said...

I am very, very sorry to say this, but shouldn't you be looking for another (busier) job or maybe a hobby, in stead of making such a big thing out of something so incredibly small?

355 days a year nobody in this country talks about this tradition that goes back to the Dark Ages (Between 1200 and 1500 more than a hundred churches were built in Holland and Belgium to honour Saint Nicholas).

Although it is in the middle of summer, I feel the need to respond to the image of racism you created in relation to this long lasting tradition in my country, in which you are a welcome guest like so many foreigners, black or white.

The core of your plea is that something that is possibly offensive to other people, even if it is rooted in centuries of tradition of a country and is part of its cultural heritage, should be banned or transformed in such a way, that it is acceptable to all those possibly offended.

In the USA, Santa has so called ‘Elves’ as helpers. Religious people could be rudely offended by this ‘supernatural phenomenon’ as they already get upset by the image of Harry Potter flying a broomstick (http://www.exposingsatanism.org/harrypotter.htm and dozens of other websites).

Furthermore, according to the media, Muslims in increasing numbers become very upset when they discover a Christmas tree in a US (or Canadian) airport lobby or shopping mall. (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/11/30/de_christmasing_christmas/)

Wouldn’t this, according to your analysis on Sinterklaas en Zwarte Piet, be enough reason for a complete ban on Christmas in the USA and Canada, or possibly: Worldwide?

Or maybe a complete ban on Christianity? All these offensive images like the crosses. With all these offended poor souls, considering themselves victims of Christianity. Shouldn’t Christianity be banned?

The image of a Christian cross could offend many people that have been victimized by or are descendants of victims of Christianity. From descendants of exterminated witches by the Roman Catholic Church during the Dark Ages, to descendants of victims of the Spanish Inquisition. Indirect victims of the Crusades or of sexual abuse in RC-churches. From Muslims in Bosnia, Muslims in Saudi Arabia, actually Muslims everywhere around the globe, that feel offended by the symbols and heritage of Christianity.

According to your judgment on Sinterklaas, we should therefore also put a ban on Christianity and its symbols. Or does your opinion exclude religion?

Toby Sterling said...

@Anonymous _ Zwarte Piet.

Funny, I was just thinking about what I'll be writing about Zwarte Piet next year.

Your remarks:

>shouldn't you be looking for another (busier) job or maybe a hobby

I agree. My wife agrees. Blogging: too much for a hobby, not enough for a job. Still, I'll keep my own counsel on what I write and how I blog, as long as that's okay with you. And also if it's not okay with you, actually.

>I feel the need to respond to the image of racism you created in relation to this long lasting tradition in my country

You are most welcome to vent.

I didn't create an image of racism. I called it racist. And of course, I agree it is a long-lasting tradition, but old traditions can be bad ones. Female circumcision, for example.

>you are a welcome guest like so many foreigners, black or white.

That's debatable in the individual or group.

>The core of your plea is that something that is possibly offensive to other people, even if it is rooted in centuries of tradition of a country and is part of its cultural heritage, should be banned or transformed in such a way, that it is acceptable to all those possibly offended.

Ah, there I disagree, and I think you are distorting my argument (more below).

You are no doubt influenced by the current debate in Holland on the extent to which being offensive and insulting is part of a person's right to freedom of speech.

My guess is that you and I will actually hold very similar views on that. While I don't like being offensive or insulting, because I think it's poor manners, I would support a persons' right to do so _ within certain limits. I've posted quite a bit about that in the past, especially in re: Geert Wilders.

>In the USA, Santa has so called ‘Elves’ as helpers. Religious people could be rudely offended by this ‘supernatural phenomenon’ ...etc....Muslims in increasing numbers become very upset when they discover a Christmas tree...Wouldn’t this, according to your analysis on Sinterklaas en Zwarte Piet, be enough reason for a complete ban on Christmas in the USA and Canada, or possibly: Worldwide?

I think I understand your argument _ which continues into reductio ad absurdum _ but the reason I oppose Zwarte Piet not to avoid mere offense.

Consider the following example: if a parent shouts at a child every day and tells him he's stupid, it's not offensive, it's abusive.

It might cause him to have self-esteem problem and other emotional problems later on.

In my opinion, Zwarte Piet is the equivalent of shouting at young black people and telling them they are stupid, and shouting at young white people that black people are stupid.

As I wrote, it's debatable how much damage is done by Zwarte Piet, who is usually only seen for a few weeks a year (though he is seen everywhere during that period).

In my opinion this is one of the weakest parts of my arguments, because I don't think that most children who see violent video games are negatively affected (so why should being exposed to racist imagery turn them racist?).

Still, the tradition, while old, has always been in flux (not much emphasis on Sinterklaas beating the crap out of kids these days, is there?) so a little more change is not so much to ask, in my opinion.

It's the 21st century, anonymous, time to let go of those colonial attitudes.

And I promise, if you think the U.S. elves are underpaid and overworked like seamstresses in a third-world sweatshop, I'll do my part to get rid of that imagery too.

Regards,

Toby

Zwarte Piet Is A Racist Disgrace said...

Here we go again on Expatica...

Zwarte Piet Is A Racist Disgrace http://forum.expatica.com/Discuss-Dutch-Culture-f121.html

Toby Sterling said...

@Zwarte Piet

Thanks _ thinking about what I'll post this year. Looks like Expatica is already lively ...

Interesting to see I was trying to reinvent the wheel last year; lots of good research links on Expatica.

I like this one:

http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/question/jan05/

Quest said...

Hi Toby,

I just posted the comment below on Expatica. I'm trying to make a catalog of good links to places like your blog.

You might find it funny, but the blog actually started when I commented on your blog. I accidently created it while logging and, and decided I might as well use it to try to give some international focus to this. Over the years I have spent a lot of time researching it, and things are scattered all over the place. I'll leave the good editorial up to you.

-- Quest
----------------------------
In case anyone is interested, I have made a blog for links about the racial aspects of the Zwarte Piet/Black Peter tradition: http://zwartepiet-links.blogspot.com


Zwarte Piet / Black Peter and Racism

This blog provides links about the Zwarte Piet/Black Peter tradition in The Netherlands from a racial perspective. It was created so that non-Dutch speakers can more easily find information, and possibly bring it into the mainstream of international discussion. This blog will be limited to links and references about the tradition from a perspective on racism. You are welcome to provide links, but if they are not limited to the aforementioned, they will be deleted.

If people are not interested in the racial aspect, it is not the place for them. There are plenty of links in Dutch or they can start their own blog.

Feel free to add links. I'm especially interested in finding Activist groups for this on an international level.

BlackWomenInEUrope said...

You can find posts about this on my Black Women in Europe blog as well:
http://blog.blackwomenineurope.com

Toby Sterling said...

@Black women _ I remember your posts from last year, but now I can't find the discussion on your blog. Where to look?

Ainslie Podulke van der Stam said...

Thanks so much for this well argued piece. Did you know about the protest they were going to have in Eindhoven about this? (Got cancelled due to "right wing pressures")

virginia said...

Dear Tony,

I found your blog as I was looking for ways that other people explain to their (Dutch) family and friends why the Zwarte Piet get-up is so offensive. Thank you very much for articulating the position so well.

I hope that you enjoy pakjes avond and that you are still here and well in the NL.

regards,

Virginia

Toby Sterling said...

@Virgina _ well thanks for the kinds words and glad to be of help. I really should boil this essay down to a shorter summary someday...